What is sexual immorality?

Sexual immorality and sexual images are so prevalent today, especially in youth culture and college age people. Those things seem to be valued in this generation. It is in the music that people listen to and also in advertisements. Companies use sexual images to sell products. My university (Portland State) accepts homosexual behavior as normal. They even have a “queer resource center”. I would also be surfing the net and suddenly get redirected to a porn site. Someone needs to clean the net up. Kids can get redirected to these things as well as anyone else.

Yes, it is a matter of heart, but, more important, it is a covenant in front of God and of man and it is also a proclamation of God's truth. Concerning Abraham, yes, he was wrong, very wrong. The next chapters tells about this and all the history of manking is witnessing it.

How does a man have to marry a virgin, but the woman shouldnt marry a virgin? Are we men free to sew our oats first? Then what of the women we have been with?Virgin REALLY means young woman, during that time.But still, what is sexually immoral. People add fornication in the translations when they feel like it. Many dont say it at all, just 'sexually immoral.

In the New Testament, πορνεία (porneia) is commonly translated incorrectly into English as fornication rather than its truer meaning of sexual immorality and is prohibited by the Apostolic Decree. In Biblical Greek, the word porneia meant “sexual immorality” or “sexual perversions.” It was often used as a blanket term to encompass all sexual activity and even sexual thoughts (ie. sexual lust/fantasies) that were considered unrighteous by the laws of Leviticus.-wikipedia

Abraham was NOT wrong. Sarah could not bear a child for him, so she gave her servant. During that time, the law was a man could have more than one wife, if his wife approved. She would even choose the other wife. If she did not agree, she would bring her own demise from the decision.

rayanarchy,Abraham was very wrong in having 2 wives. God's plan for the ages is one man and one woman (his wife) in the marriage covenant. He allowed men to take more wives in the OT but it was not right. Plus, all the men who had more than one wife had many problems. Women are to be virgins at marriage as well as men. Proverbs 15 clearly explains that they place for sexual pleasure for a man is only in the confines of marriage with his wife. Here is the definition of fornication (a correct translation of porneia)fornication Look up fornication at Dictionary.com c.1300, from O.Fr. fornication, from L.L. fornicationem (nom. fornicatio), from fornicari “fornicate,” from L. fornix (gen. fornicis) “brothel,” originally “arch, vaulted chamber” (Roman prostitutes commonly solicited from under the arches of certain buildings), from fornus “oven of arched or domed shape.” Strictly, “voluntary sex between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman;” extended in the Bible to adultery.http://erikbrewer.wordpress.com/

Abraham was very wrong in having 2 wives. God's plan for the ages is one man and one woman (his wife) in the marriage covenant. He allowed men to take more wives in the OT but it was not right. Plus, all the men who had more than one wife had many problems. http://erikbrewer.wordpress.com/

Read Genesis chapters 1 and 2. The pattern is very clear, one man and one woman (his wife). Jesus, Himself, also refers to the same passage in His teachings on marriage. 3Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?” 4″Haven't you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,'[a] 5and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'[b]? 6So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.”

rayanarchy,

Women are to be virgins at marriage as well as men. Proverbs 15 clearly explains that they place for sexual pleasure for a man is only in the confines of marriage with his wife.

Here is the definition of fornication (a correct translation of porneia)

fornication Look up fornication at Dictionary.com
c.1300, from O.Fr. fornication, from L.L. fornicationem (nom. fornicatio), from fornicari “fornicate,” from L. fornix (gen. fornicis) “brothel,” originally “arch, vaulted chamber” (Roman prostitutes commonly solicited from under the arches of certain buildings), from fornus “oven of arched or domed shape.” Strictly, “voluntary sex between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman;” extended in the Bible to adultery.

http://erikbrewer.wordpress.com/

Abraham was very wrong in having 2 wives. God's plan for the ages is one man and one woman (his wife) in the marriage covenant. He allowed men to take more wives in the OT but it was not right. Plus, all the men who had more than one wife had many problems.

http://erikbrewer.wordpress.com/

Read Genesis chapters 1 and 2. The pattern is very clear, one man and one woman (his wife). Jesus, Himself, also refers to the same passage in His teachings on marriage.

3Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”

4″Haven't you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,'[a] 5and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'[b]? 6So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.”

Let's think through what the Bible says 16Or (AD)do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, “(AE)THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.”When you join with a woman in the sexual act you become 1 flesh with her, once 2 become 1 they can never be seperated again without being broken (1 is indivisible). If you are 1 flesh with your wife and then join with another, the previous bondage of 1 flesh is broken. Simple math and logic. We study the Bible with our minds.BTW, adultery and sexual immorality (fornication) are both condemned in Leviticus. 2 wives at one time is both sexual immorality and adultery. Study the lives of men in the OT with multiple wives and you will see all the problems that they faced.

When you are married to a wife and then you have sexual relations with another woman (married to her or not) you have just committed adultery (as Lev. clearly teaches). Look closely at the wording of Gen. 2, cleave means to cement together, once 2 things are cemented together they cannot be seperated without being broken, sexual immorality (adultery) breaks the covenant bond between husband and wife.

Adultery is distinctly different than sexual immorality (beastiality, male-male, sex with family…)

Ex 20:10

The only restriction on polygamy is a ban on taking a wife’s sister asa rival wife (Lev. 18:18). The Old Testament does have someinjunctions on how to distribute the property of a man among his sonsfrom different wives (Deut. 22:7).

“Let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.”The words for “his own” and “her own” in this verse are different, andit is not simply a gender difference. This is what we would expect ifthe way in which they belong to the other differs according to gender.If you check the word for “her own” and look up Romans 14, you willsee it is the same word used there of a servant and “his own master”.This shows that, if he had believed in monogamy, Paul could have usedthe same word for both sexes in 1 Corinthians 7. But he didn't.It also means that a woman has her own husband in the same way that aservant has his own master. Just as a master can have more than oneservant, so a husband can have more than one wife, and in the same wayas a servant can only have one master, so a wife can only have onehusband.Any discussion of Christian doctrine beyond what the Bible teaches isspeculation. You can read on and consider this speculation if youwish, but it is still speculation. Christian acceptance of polygynyand rejection of polyandry is based on the belief in the infallibilityof the Bible – and Christians should base their beliefs on the Bibleand not on speculation.So, here goes… 1. The first thing to note is that polyandry is very rare – to theextent of being a freak of nature – the vast majority of societieswhich allow polygamy allow it for men and not for women. The twosystems do not run together – it has the potential to get horrendouslyconfusing if it does. It is likely to be more than just chance whichmakes this the case. 2. A woman always knows whether a baby is her baby. A man doesn't -unless he knows that the woman was only sleeping with him. To preservethe bond between parents and children, women cannot have more than onepartner of the opposite sex. Men can. If a man suspects he is payingfor a child who is not his he may want to leave. If a man wants toleave, in a polyandrous situation he can always deny responsibilityfor the children in the relationship. This leaves the family at risk.Practically speaking we know that men tend towards providing for thefamily – polyandry greatly increases the risk that the family willbreak apart and everyone will be poorer. 3. There are more women of marriageable age in the world than thereare men. This means that many women who want to marry cannot, becauseof the sheer weight of numbers. For more detail on this see the “VitalStatistics” part of this site. Polyandry makes this problem worse.Polygamy can remove the problem all together. 4. According to leading economists, the problem should be thoughtif in terms of demand and supply. When men are allowed more than onewife, there is suddenly an increase in demand for women (as marriedmen can be legitimate prospects as well as single men). This meansthat their “price” (what a man is willing to do for them to get andkeep them) goes up. Similarly there is a decrease in demand for men(as women who may have married them now have a far wider choice). Thismeans that their “price” (what a woman is willing to do for them toget and keep them) goes down. So – according to leading economists, ifa man is allowed more than one wife the situation for all women isimproved – they have more done for them, and don't have to do as much,but if women were allowed more than one husband their situation wouldbe much worse – they would have to do a great deal to get a man, andhe would have to do even less than he does now. Put simply, economicsteaches that when men have more wives it is better for women, and thatwhen women have more husbands it is worse for women. This combineswith the imbalance in numbers of men and women to mean that polyandryand compulory monogamy are both bad for women. 5. It has been suggested by some that women are naturallymonogamous and that men are naturally polygamous. From the viewpointof natural selection, men have more to gain from multiple partnersbecause they can have more children and propogate their genes, butwomen can at the most only be pregnant once every nine months, and thenumber of partners they have does nothing to change this. The naturalorder seems to uphold the idea of women having one partner. 6. Many who do not accept Christianity would still accept the basicpoint that leadership tends to be male. This means they can accept thebasic logic of the Christian leadership argument – that a family needsonly one leader and that two leaders is not viable.

Let's think through what the Bible says 16Or (AD)do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, “(AE)THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.”When you join with a woman in the sexual act you become 1 flesh with her, once 2 become 1 they can never be seperated again without being broken (1 is indivisible). If you are 1 flesh with your wife and then join with another, the previous bondage of 1 flesh is broken. Simple math and logic. We study the Bible with our minds.BTW, adultery and sexual immorality (fornication) are both condemned in Leviticus. 2 wives at one time is both sexual immorality and adultery. Study the lives of men in the OT with multiple wives and you will see all the problems that they faced.

Everyone throughout the bible had many problems. When you join with your second wife, you are one flesh with her as well as with the first, that is why the first wife must approve..Depending on which translation, sexual immorality may or may not include fornication. Lev enumerated sexual immorality, and it did not include fornication. Sex outside of marriage is adultery. If you have a second wife, the sex is within marriage. You must maintain and love both wives equally.

When you are married to a wife and then you have sexual relations with another woman (married to her or not) you have just committed adultery (as Lev. clearly teaches). Look closely at the wording of Gen. 2, cleave means to cement together, once 2 things are cemented together they cannot be seperated without being broken, sexual immorality (adultery) breaks the covenant bond between husband and wife. Also, look at the specific problems because of multiple wives, do not try to spin the question, I know all people have problems but look at the specific problems caused by multiple wives (Solomon for example), David, Abraham , etc. Adam proved that it is hard enough with one wife.

rayanarchy,Are you by chance a Mormon?

Adultery is distinctly different than sexual immorality (beastiality, male-male, sex with family…)

The reason sex should be confined to marriage is because of disease. So you are not with women who are still with other men. So you have your own.

Ex 20:10

Nope, sexual immorality (porneia) is the umbrella which adultery fits under. You can commit sexual immorality without committing adultery but you cannot commit adultery without committing sexual immorality. For example, 2 people who are not married, if they have sexual relations then it is not adultery, but it is sexual immorality. Right, so you have your own. It is not just because of disease, it is because of covenant and the fact that through sex, 2 become 1. If you sleep around then you are a broken vessel leaving bits and pieces of yourself with ever partner. 2But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband. (I Cor. 7)Own wife and own husband, both in the singular sense. To say that the Bible teaches more than one wife is ok is just flat out wrong. All throughout the Bible the same pattern is repeated, 1 man and his 1 wife (from Gen to Rev.).What is the point of Ex. 20:10? It teaches nothing about sexual immorality, adultery, or husbands and wives. 10'(I)If there is a man who commits adultery with another man's wife, one who commits adultery with his friend's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. (Lev.20) 28″(O)If a man finds a girl who is a virgin, who is not engaged, and seizes her and lies with her and they are discovered, 29then the man who lay with her shall give to the girl's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall become his wife because he has violated her; he cannot divorce her all his days. (Deut.22)Both sexual immorality and adultery are punished by God. 4(A)Marriage is to be held in honor among all, and the marriage bed is to be undefiled; (B)for fornicators and adulterers God will judge. (Hebrews 13:4)You see both fornication (sexual immorality/porneia) and adultery are punished (judged) by God.

The only restriction on polygamy is a ban on taking a wife’s sister asa rival wife (Lev. 18:18). The Old Testament does have someinjunctions on how to distribute the property of a man among his sonsfrom different wives (Deut. 22:7).

Yes, polygyny is the correct spelling of having more than one wife atthe same time.Polygamy is a broader term which includes any multiple union includingpolyandry, which is a woman having more than one husband.This (polyandry) is strictly forbidden in the Scriptures, in theoriginal language, and by example.Polygyny, on the other hand, is a man having more than one wife.Many examples can be found in the Scriptures and is NOWHERE forbidden therein. “The man who commits adultery with another man's wife, he whocommits adultery with his neighbours wife, the adulterer and theadulteress, shall surely be put to death.” Leviticus 20 v 10 “If a man is found lying with a woman married to a husband,then both of them shall die, both the man that lay with the woman, andthe woman, so you shall put away the evil person from Israel.” Deuteronomy 22 v 22 “So then if, while her husband is living she marries anotherman, she shall be called an adulteress, but if her husband has died,she is free from that law, so that she is not an adulteress, eventhough she marries another man.” Romans Chapter 7 v 3These verses stop women from having more than one husband living atany one time. They do not stop men from having more than one wifebecause firstly, they quite simply don't say it, and secondly, it isclearly not a general principle which applies regardless of sex. Thatcan be seen in the way the Old Testament repeats and rewrites lawsthat apply to men where they apply to women, and in the immediatecontext of the passage in Romans. The reason the Bible gives is that awoman is under the law of her husband until he dies. While the Bibledoes talk of marriage partners having authority over each other'sbodies, it never talks of a man being under the law of his wife. Infact, it numerous places the Bible indicates that that would beintolerable, such as 1 Timothy 2 v 12 “I do not allow a woman to teachor to usurp authority over the man”.In fact, Romans 7 makes this clear. The passage is comparing the womanto the individual believer, being dead to the law of Moses so thatthey can be married to Christ and be under his law. It would beinappropriate to say that Christ was under the law of the believer,and in the same way it is inappropriate to say that a husband is underthe law of his wife. And because of that it is clear that therestriction in Romans 7 of a woman to one husband cannot betransformed into a restriction of a man to only one wife.This highlights another principle which rules out polyandry throughGod's system of leadership. 1 Corinthians 11 shows that this is:- * God is the head of Christ * Christ is the head of man * Man is the head of woman.This would be defined by our society as sexist, but the Bible clearlytreats men and women differently – so does God – otherwise men wouldbe able to have babies too! The order does not signify inequality. TheBible teaches that Christ is God just as much as the Father. They areco-equal but have different roles. Obviously, man is not equal toChrist – so the passage does allow for inequality. When we return toman and woman we can see that they can be equal, perhaps in the sameway that the Father and Christ are equal, but equality does not meanthey are exactly the same or have the same rights andresponsibilities.Hence the man is the head of woman – he takes the lead. The Scripturesshow that the man must love his wives and obviously this will affecthis decisions.In case you think we are now considering a different subject, here isthe punchline – “no man can serve two masters”.Christian teaching is that you cannot follow different leaders – youwill hate one and love another. So it is in marriage. A woman cannothave two husbands because she cannot follow two leaders. A man canhave two wives because it is perfectly possible to lead more than oneperson.

“Let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.”The words for “his own” and “her own” in this verse are different, andit is not simply a gender difference. This is what we would expect ifthe way in which they belong to the other differs according to gender.If you check the word for “her own” and look up Romans 14, you willsee it is the same word used there of a servant and “his own master”.This shows that, if he had believed in monogamy, Paul could have usedthe same word for both sexes in 1 Corinthians 7. But he didn't.It also means that a woman has her own husband in the same way that aservant has his own master. Just as a master can have more than oneservant, so a husband can have more than one wife, and in the same wayas a servant can only have one master, so a wife can only have onehusband.Any discussion of Christian doctrine beyond what the Bible teaches isspeculation. You can read on and consider this speculation if youwish, but it is still speculation. Christian acceptance of polygynyand rejection of polyandry is based on the belief in the infallibilityof the Bible – and Christians should base their beliefs on the Bibleand not on speculation.So, here goes… 1. The first thing to note is that polyandry is very rare – to theextent of being a freak of nature – the vast majority of societieswhich allow polygamy allow it for men and not for women. The twosystems do not run together – it has the potential to get horrendouslyconfusing if it does. It is likely to be more than just chance whichmakes this the case. 2. A woman always knows whether a baby is her baby. A man doesn't -unless he knows that the woman was only sleeping with him. To preservethe bond between parents and children, women cannot have more than onepartner of the opposite sex. Men can. If a man suspects he is payingfor a child who is not his he may want to leave. If a man wants toleave, in a polyandrous situation he can always deny responsibilityfor the children in the relationship. This leaves the family at risk.Practically speaking we know that men tend towards providing for thefamily – polyandry greatly increases the risk that the family willbreak apart and everyone will be poorer. 3. There are more women of marriageable age in the world than thereare men. This means that many women who want to marry cannot, becauseof the sheer weight of numbers. For more detail on this see the “VitalStatistics” part of this site. Polyandry makes this problem worse.Polygamy can remove the problem all together. 4. According to leading economists, the problem should be thoughtif in terms of demand and supply. When men are allowed more than onewife, there is suddenly an increase in demand for women (as marriedmen can be legitimate prospects as well as single men). This meansthat their “price” (what a man is willing to do for them to get andkeep them) goes up. Similarly there is a decrease in demand for men(as women who may have married them now have a far wider choice). Thismeans that their “price” (what a woman is willing to do for them toget and keep them) goes down. So – according to leading economists, ifa man is allowed more than one wife the situation for all women isimproved – they have more done for them, and don't have to do as much,but if women were allowed more than one husband their situation wouldbe much worse – they would have to do a great deal to get a man, andhe would have to do even less than he does now. Put simply, economicsteaches that when men have more wives it is better for women, and thatwhen women have more husbands it is worse for women. This combineswith the imbalance in numbers of men and women to mean that polyandryand compulory monogamy are both bad for women. 5. It has been suggested by some that women are naturallymonogamous and that men are naturally polygamous. From the viewpointof natural selection, men have more to gain from multiple partnersbecause they can have more children and propogate their genes, butwomen can at the most only be pregnant once every nine months, and thenumber of partners they have does nothing to change this. The naturalorder seems to uphold the idea of women having one partner. 6. Many who do not accept Christianity would still accept the basicpoint that leadership tends to be male. This means they can accept thebasic logic of the Christian leadership argument – that a family needsonly one leader and that two leaders is not viable.

First of all, you never did answer my question if you are a Mormon or not. What you write seems to be heavily influenced my Mormon doctrine ( I know it well). Is there a reason why you avoided the question about Mormonism? Polygamy is sexual immorality, according to the definition of the original words used in the OT and the NT. Also the passages of the OT and NT specifically mention what is wrong, adultery, polygamy is adultery The verses of the Bible stop both men and women form having multiple spouses at the same time. If a spouse dies, then the person is free to remarry (ie, second husband or second wife, not at the same time of course, it is ludicrous to suggest that God would have double standards for men and women, are they both not fellow/equal heirs of the grace of God, if you are a Mormon then I know your answer to that question already).Look at the entire context of the passage that you quoted from Romans 7, the reason for writing what was written is seen from the entire context. Both husbands and wives are bound to each other by law. You need to study the subject of Covenant in the Bible, since marriage is a covenant. It is a solemn, binding agreement for both parties involved. Your understanding of Romans 7 does not match up with the context of the text. Christ came into this world under the law and fulfilled it perfectly, but that is a totally different subject. You made a great leap to distort what Romans 7 actually says. Also, you have not looked at the specific problems caused by multiple wives in the OT. You seem to avoid that so easily. As far as the I Timothy quote, you pulled a classic on that one. Who is the woman and who is the man? Is it husband and wife or any woman at all? I Corinthians 11 is also in the context of marriage. Christ is the head of the husband in marriage and man is the head of his one wife in marriage. The singular forms are once again used for man and woman. You have to do interesting contortions to get the passages to say that the Bible allows a man to have multiple wives. Men and women are equally created before God by God but with different roles. Different roles does not mean inequality. There 2 different examples in the passage that you have mixed together. God the Father and God the Son are equal with different roles while husband and wife are equal with different roles in marriage. There is nothing in the passage that would indicate that man is equal with Christ. That is a leap that you made on your own. Different responsibilities yes, different rights, no. Women and men are equal heirs to the grace of God. You wrote “A man can have two wives because it is perfectly possible to lead more than one person” I find it interesting that you draw this conclusion on your own without any Scriptural evidence. All of the Scriptural evidence in fact goes against your conclusion. Why is it that when the husband/wife relationship is mentioned in the NT (as well as in Gen) it is always in the singular sense? Explain that mystery to me (but without all of the back flips and distortions). BTW, Romans 14 has nothing to do with marriage, so once again you basing your argument on something that is nonexistent. Are you making a Scriptural argument or your own argument?

Hello Erik,I see that you have a lot of knowledge with this matter and I would like to tell you something and hear your response on it and what you think.So to start it off me and my girlfriend had been together for 2 years and we had sex and stuff like that. We eventually broke up about a month ago because she had a change of heart randomly to stop having sex and dating someone who wasn't a practicing christian. Now I am catholic and she is nondenominational and she attends Mars Hill church. I do believe in God and Jesus and I do live a good and moral life. Now what the main problem is between us, is that I have a huuuuugggeee problem with the Bible because it is a man-influenced translation of the original Bible. So I have my own beliefs. They are influenced by the teachings of the Bible, but not the Bible word for word. For example, sex in my opinion is ok with someone that you love and are close to and have been dating for 2 years, but to run around and pay prostitutes for sex is wrong and what I define as immoral. And that is the problem with the Bible's take on sex before marriage is that it only uses the word immoral. I don't view sex with a girlfriend of 2 years as immoral, but a drunken one night stand or sex with an animal is extremely immoral and wrong. I love her and she loves me and sex was the most expressive way of showing it. I treated her right and I made her happy and we were great together.Now I understand you are going to throw verses at me from the Bible, but that is not what I want to hear. I believe the Bible is different from person to person because of different interpretations. Its over 2000 years old, and even on the front pages of some Bibles it says “this was translated through 100's of scholars in 1965″ which means that was about 40 years ago. Some people came together and translated it into English through what THEY THOUGHT carried the same meaning.One more thing, I am a very open-minded and accepting person unlike my ex-girlfriend. I don't mind if you go to church everyday, but do not tell me that I am wrong and condemn me to hell because I do not believe in the Bible word for word. I was raised in both a Catholic church, grade school and high school and I live by the Bible's ideals and values more than anything.Just the other day we got into a fight because she asked me to stop saying the f word, but later that week she decided to have a beer. I asked why can you drink alcohol, but I can't say the f word, which I only use as a word to express a more enthusiastic distaste for something. Her justification was that her mom said its ok and that in the Bible it says that you can do anything that the law says is ok and she said the law says its ok to drink within your home if your parents give you permission. Now are you kidding me or what? I was furious when I read that. She is just twisting herself around corners and doing anything to justify her actions which is so infuriating for me. She does it all the time and she ALWAYS uses the Bible as if its a universal law. I personally think she is a fanatic and needs to lighten up, be a good person and be happy while still having God in your life.Sorry for the long message, hopefully I hear from you soon. Thanks for your time in advance. One more thing, I believe that the most important aspect of Christianity is that you truly, from the bottom of your heart, really BELIEVE in God with no doubts, and that is where I am in my life. Just not the church and the translated Bibles.Mike

I also want to let you know that I am still learning a lot. And I think it is obvious. So if you read something that you disagree with then just please be pateint with me. Thanks.

I am glad to have a rational conversation with you. I lived in Seattle for a year (off topic but thought I would share) as a missionary. I love the area and want to visit some day with my family. I served as a campus minister at Green River Community College. Now back to the topic at hand.I do not have my own version of Christianity. I was raised in a very religious environment where many people considered themselves Christians (not based on what the Bible teaches, but instead, based on what they wanted to believe about Christianity. I was right along with everyone else. I was not a Christian and realized that when I repented and was born again (became a new person from the inside out). I follow the only true form of Christianity, the one clearly explained in the Bible. Personal faith and belief do not make you right or wrong. I really feel that you have bought into the lie of relativism (everybody is right because they believe, there is no black and white, right or wrong, everything is right because you believe it). Terrible worldview and completely impossible because of it is illogical. You can have all the faith in the world in the wrong thing and the thing will continue to be wrong. I hope that you understand the logic behind what I am saying. Have you ever studied logic? I have many times so if there is a need for more explanation then please let me know. I know Mars Hill Church very well. Not all Catholic Churches are the same. There are Churches that do not have anything to do with God in the Catholic denomination just like there are in any of the major denominations. But on the other hand, there are Catholic churches that follow the teaching of the Bible, just like the other denominations. So painting with a broad brush is not encouraged. I do understand your complaint. People with evil intentions have been around since the beginning when sin came into the world. The Old Testament speaks about them, especially the ones in the Church (universal) and what will happen to them because of the fact that they turn people away from God. I understand what you are saying about your girlfriend because I had a similar situation in my past, before I became a Christian. I had a girlfriend for many years whom I swore up and down that I loved. I rationalized my actions based on “love”. Once I came to my sense or in other words, saw reality for what it is, I realized that I did not love her and only used her. I had to place my pride aside and admit that I was wrong. That was not easy but it was very freeing. You wrote, “And I will admit that sometimes I change it to fit what I think God will judge me on,” Do you realize what you are admitting to? The fact that you know better than God or worse that you think that you are equal with Him. Why are you envious of what others have? Do you realize what the 10 commands teach about coveting, being envious of what others have. By the way, what are you doing to help the starving 5 year olds instead of judging what others are not doing? I know these are tough questions but I would encourage you to think about them. As far as insurance goes, the total profit of the insurance business is 10 billion a year while Medicaid alone wastes over 60 billion a year. One has to earn every penny of that 10 billion while the other does nothing but take from others and then waste. Which would you pass judgment on? Sex outside of marriage is wrong if it in a monogamous relationship or a one night stand, God does not distinguish between the two acts. Porn has been around since the beginning of sin so that is a terrible excuse. I was a slave to porn for almost 10 years before I was set free through the power of Jesus Christ. I am not speaking theory to you. I have been in the muck and mud of this world. Thanks for being open and engaging in dialogue. I look forward to more conversations.

Sorry it took so long to respond. I've been really busy with finals and work. But back to the conversation, yes I do understand your logic and I agree that the world has bought into the idea of relativism. But then again religion and faith are illogical as well as irrational. And maybe that is my problem; maybe I am too rational and I am looking for an absolute proof which we all know can not be provided. So maybe it will take me 10 years as it did for you, maybe that point in my life hasn't come yet where I truly feel in my heart that I need to change, that I need to better myself.Something I forgot to mention…a problem I have with Christianity and the Bible is that there are several denominations that are part of Christianity, for example Catholics and Protestants, but that have different versions of the Bible. How can you be a Christian and believe the Bible as literal, when a different denominations within the same religion has removed entire sections of what you consider to be the ultimate word of God, the only Bible. Sorry if the tone sounds angry or something, but I am just seeking your explanation.I am not envious of those rich atheletes or celebrities. The point I was trying to make was that no one should be making that much money and that in the dysfunctional world that we live in today, I try to keep my sanity by doing the best I can. I wasn't judging those people that are making 25 million for playing basketball, I was just saying that the system should be changed so they make 1/50 of that at the most. The world isn't perfect and I am not perfect, so I do the best I feel I can at this point in my life. As you said it took you a while to figure it out, and may be I just need time. But I don't think I am equal to or better than God and I don't think I know more than he does.

What do you study and what kind of work do you do? (hope that is not too personal, just curious). Being logical and rational is very important when looking at faith. God never wants us to blindly accept what we do not understand (not that we can ever fully understand God but He has given us enough info in His Word). As far as absolute proof, what more do you need than the resurrection? I would recommend you read the following book “The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus”. You can find it at http://www.amazon.com/Case-Resurrection-Jesus-G…I would advise you to start searching right away. Get to someone who can teach you how to study the Bible inductively, precept upon precept (http://store.precept.org/default.aspx?skinid=2&…)The Bible was originally written in 3 languages; Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. It was complied to form what is known as the Bible today. Those Scriptures have been translated many times over the years into many different languages. In the English language there are several kinds of translations; word for word from the original languages, thought for thought of the original languages, paraphrase of the original, etc. I would recommend a word for word translation from the original because you get the closest to the original even if you do not speak/read/understand the original languages. There are also tools that help people who do not read/understand the original languages of the Bible, compare their translations to the original in order to discover the intended meaning of a word in the original. Check out this website for tips on studying the Bible in your own language with help from the original languages (http://www.biblestudytools.com/).The reason that there are many denominations is because not everyone studies the Bible for what is there. Instead, they have their own preconceived theology that they filter the Bible through. When this happens people can be confused and misled about the Bible says, and also about what is actually written in the Bible. Some people hold to teaching that they think are in the Bible but actually, those teachings are from their theological background and not even in the Bible. There are other mistakes that people make because they do not study the Bible, but instead, listen to what other people say about the Bible. Here are 2 prime examples. Many people believe that the fruit that Adam and Eve ate while in the Garden of Eden was an apple. The Bible actually does not say. The only words that is used is fruit. People assume that the Bible says it was an apple. Another would be the prophet Jonah, when he was swallowed by a big fish. Many think that the Bible says he was swallowed by a whale. That is simply not correct. The Bible that I use is the NASB (New American Standard Bible) which is a word for word translation from the original languages (http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/New-Americ…) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_American_Stand…)

Jesus never spoke in that manner about sin. If he condemmned divorce he would just say it is a sin to divorce your wife. In Ch5 verse 27 jesus is talking about adultery and that's it.

The whole argument of the meaning of porneia and fornication, either literally or within context is over shadowing the fact that st.paul was never vague when it came to sins. As he explained it is a sin to divorce your wife, he would hav explained it was a sin to hav sex before marriage. And by the way, the word fornication itself has many meanings.St.Paul was very clear when he said a woman must wear a veil while praying. No one argues about how the church chose to disregard that over the years.Leviticus never mentions pre-marital sex as being prohibited and explains what really is prohibited.Jesus never spoke about sex outside marriage other than that with prostitutes and married partners.As was said before, it is very hard to look for aswers when you are actually looking for what you wish to hear. It is hard to change your mind after dovoting your life to a cause, albeit a wrong one.

The Old Testament (Gen.2) explains that sex comes after the man and woman have been joined together (what we call marriage today). So it is understood from that explanation and the explanations of the words used; like fornication and adultery (both are sex outside of marriage). Jesus quoted Genesis 2 directly, so yes Jesus did teach that marriage is first and then sex.

Have anyone ever wondered why God did not speak indepth about Masterbation or Kissing and so on? How am I suppose to know how to what to do when i start having sexual urges. Sometimes i cannot control myself what am i suppose to do. Everyone goes around telling you not to do certain thing but now one tells u how they dealt with theirs'. I am sure all of us know that we are living in a world were sexual immorality is dominant, young people are influence by everything they see. People, we need to work harder or we will loose a lot of our Christian young people including me.

Wow, I'm having the same problem!! In a sense, I know that it is wrong to do that (even though the Bible doesn't really speak on it), but how do you fight the urges? Please someone help because I feel myself slipping, and the thing I despise the most is letting God down.

I too am having the problem of looking at pornography and masturbating to it. It is wrong, and I feel so guilty afterwoods. But without a doubt, it is wrong to do. We as christians know this, even if we can't find scriptures to confirm it. It is a battle with our flesh. We have to bring it under subjection or control. Make up your mind to stop it, pray for help. do not be discouraged if you slip up; just sincerely repent, and move on. no doubt, you will slip up numerous of times, but don't give up. Try your BEST to stop it, and you will. Remember, you can't fool GOD. He knows if you are really trying. Eventually, you will overcome it, and you will be in a position to help someone else with this same problem. I'll be pray for you. God Bless!!

Could I ask more about this article because i like it….
It helps me a lot………….

Matthew 19:7 They(the disciples) said to Him (Jesus) Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of Divorce, and to put her away?
8: He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9:And I say to you whoever divorces his wife except for sexual immorality, and marries another commits adultery, and whoever marries her who is divorced commists adultery. 10. His disciples said to Him, If such is the case of the man with his wife it is better NOT to marry.

Sexual Immorality is a huge subject and Rev. Vasile Filat ,Author of this article gives a great explanation finding many scriptures to support defining sexual immorality.

However, few people recognize COVENANT. Glad Rev. Filat Mentioned this. Divorce should not be permitted except for sexual immorality. Both husband and wife who divorce commit adultery when they remarry according to Jesus. This is also sexual immorality.

In other religions the man is permitted to take more than one wife. In the Bible Abram later named Abraham had children by his maid servant and his wife Sarah. Abram did not marry Hagar. God did not address this as Sexual Immorality. However it clearly was not the PLAN God had for Abraham and Sarah.

David had many wives, but was punished for taking “another man’s wife.”

The Muslim Religion, Mormons and other religions allow more than one wife, but it is forbidden of the woman. The other religions also require the men to remain married to the first wife and take care of all wives or children- if they do not then they are considere INFIDELS.

Whether a man marries a woman outside of the marriage with whom he fathers a child, then if he does not take care of them he is considered an INFIDEL- and so is a woman who has a child that does not care for them.

If a person thinks that it is better not to marry, then they should remain CELIBATE. Read Matthew 19: 11-12

There is sanctity in marriage and a person should be in Covenant with God first, Wife and Family, then Work and School.

Sexual Immorality is a highly offensive subject and people get offended when you try to tell them the truth about it. We should follow God’s laws first and the laws of the government second.

Although Moses provided for divorce because of “hardness of hearts” we must realize that many of the laws of our land are provided for the same reason but not correct, ex. Men able to marry men and women able to marry women. Sexual immorality. These laws exist not because they are RIGHT, but to prevent people from Stoning them to death to allow them time to realize their wrongs themself and pray for forgiveness.

Thank God for GRACE!

by Michalle Farrakhan

Does sexual immorality include masturbation?

From all of the above scripture the bible clearly backs up that sexual immorality is wrong and fornification clearly outlines the big question, that sexual activity and thoughts outside of marriage will lead you into a life of sin, along with sinning against your spouse.

However the way that alot christians talk about this subject actually leaves people who have been caught in the ‘sexualy immoratity trap’ feeling guilty, condemened and that they are a failure. Will this help the situation?

Old testiment law clearly states punishment and even death for people who comit such sins, and in the world of today with any sin comes consequences both a big and small and often alot of heart acke and issues. However the Good news is, Jesus Christ, that when he died on the Cross took away the sins of the world. That when we are saved we can be a shining light to the world around us, and be filled with the holy spirit to strengthen us against our sinful nature (as humans).

We must realise that as Chrisitans we are all sinners saved by Grace and no matter how hard we try we will always sin in our life. NO PERSON IS PERFECT! Therefore Christians do not condemn those who live in sin, but be that light in to their lives. That is the example that Jesus left when he died on the Cross. He broke all religious conceptions of the world and created ‘Grace’, that would spare us from the wrath of the old testiment law.

However this is not an excuse to continually sin, just because Jesus washes our sins white as snow and our mercies are new ever morning: “Lamentations 3:22-24 (King James Version)
22It is of the LORD’s mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.
23They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness.”

In Luke 9 vs 23-24 Jesus says “Then he said to them all: “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. [24] For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it.

The reality is God calls everyone of us to take up our cross daily, assess our own lifes and ask God for forgiveness. God is look for a heart of King David, no the king David that was adulterous, or that murdered, but men and women after God’s own heart that will admit there shotcoming and reconcile with God

God is looking for people who will seek after him, and will aim (and hopefully succeed) to remain pure. No human is involnerable to temptation. Jesus was tempted in the desert by Satan himself, the reason why he did not sin was he did give into these temptations. To aid him he used scripture . If you want to fight you sexual tendancies, remember to daily devote yourself to the word of God, put boundaries in your life to fight this. for example If you and your Boyfriend/Girlfriend are so easily tempted, do not spend so much time alone in the same building. Make sure that there are people that could easily check up on. Do not spend your time in Bedrooms no one above temptation. And finally pray daily for strength and if you find yourself in a situation where you are tempted, pray and you will extreemly suprised how quickly God gives you a way of your situation.

Sorry that I go on abit. I like to talk.

Man
Ive been Pressured day and Night by this Cultures Views of Sex
Sex isnt evil Is Good but Marriage was Designed for OUR Protection
There is a Very good Reason God told us to be married before having sex
Many People Find out Later why other Like myself can See a Afar Off and Avoid a Very Big
Misery, I thank Jesus that He has Kept Me from this Serious Deal
I really One day wanna take Porn out of Biznizz I will Do it by Gods grace and help I believe
For nothing is Impossibe for them that believe for with God all things are Possible
I wanna take out Porn Of of Biznizz
it has Plaqued My dad and My Family and almost Brought us to Poverty
May God Repay those Who Get Rich over someones Poverty
and May God repay Me as well

Thank you for this good article, however, I do have a question, and it runs along the lines of homosexuality:

I have a brother who happens to be “gay”.  He says that he has always had these tendencies since he was young; he implies that he was born this way and points to animals having homosexual tendencies as proof that this phenomonon is perfectly natural in humans as well.  He goes on to say that the authors of the Bible weren’t making “gay” sex out to be a sin.  Instead my brother says that the authors of the Bible were talking about sex as religious practices to be a sin.

I’ve read the Old Testiment and don’t believe him on this account of the Bible not condemning homosexuality, and I also don’t think that homosexuality is a genetic phenomonon meaning one is born with it (I think it has to do with the emotional connections made in early childhood), but I do wonder about the question of action.

What I mean is this: since my brother is a homosexual and I’m sure this cannot be changed, since God is an all-knowing Being, He won’t condemn him to hell just because he has these tendancies.  Do you think that it is what my brother does that will condemn him…like having sex with another guy or marrying a guy?  What about kissing and touching a guy like a woman?

I feel that these would be sexual immorality, but what do you think?  Thank you for your time
and have a good day.

Peter.

i love you

I don’t know what to do now I been doing a lot of reading on all sexual immorality.and I love God and accept Jesus as my savior I want to always please them I know that’s impossible because we all sin. But I try. But now I don’t know what to do I want to wait now to get married. Because I do fear The Lord . But what do I do when I been with this man for almost 5years an we have 2 children together. Do I break up with him do I tell him let’s not have sex till we married. I mean I tried to talk to him and told him we should get married its a sin to be having sex and kids and we r not married but I don’t think he fears The Lord like I do so what do I do I can’t force him to the altar he says he wants to but has done nothing. What to do!!???????

A lot of us are in trouble!

I haven’t read all the comments to know if anyone pointed this out but Fornication has nothing to do with sex between two consensual unmarried persons. That’s somehow became the meaning today, but the actual word means prostitution, and not just any kind of prostitution either. Because a fornix was an archway under the city were the filth and scum of the city hung out and prostitutes that couldn’t work in the official brothels had to solicit clients. The fornicator was the client of the prostitute, the fornatrix was the prostitute, and fornication was sex between these two people. On top of the fact that the word fornication isn’t correctly used today is that even it was translated from an original greek word “porneia” which also included idolatry. This meant temple prostitution to be exact (look it up, it’s strange stuff). So where now we have a mistranslated Bible to start with (English), and a word that has a new modern definition (fornication). We have people preaching consensual sex between two unmarried people is a sin, whereas the original Bible is many times outlawing temple prostitutes which was a form of idolatry through sex. The word porneia also in some uses meant bestiality, molestation, incest, and pedophilia, because at the time the Romans (and others) would attack tribes and cities and capture kids (a premium for the boys) and use them as sex slaves and where we now see “sexual immorality” in the Bible, the original word was porneia and the context wasn’t temple prostitutes but incest.